Prayer and Sadism

When my nephew died, there were prayers offered at the funeral. That moment was a large part of the reason I understood, finally, that religion is essentially full of it. My nephew lived a painful life, struggling valiantly to live through a set of ailments that should have taken him out in the first month of his life. Through the love and extreme efforts of my brother and his wife, my nephew lived and fought for several years filled with love and joy. He brought unbelievable happiness to everyone who met him, and was one of the few truly beautiful people I've ever known.

God gets no credit. My brother and sister-in-law did this. They did it despite doctors telling them to let him go. They did it despite family members nay-saying. They did it at the expense of their own financial well-being, moving around the country to find the best possible care. They did it out of their unconditional love. Where was God? Well, some people would say that God put this child in their care because he had a plan. If that's the case, why stop there? Why didn't he prevent the doctors from doping him up for the first year of his life? Why didn't he send better professional care his way? What did he do to deserve the pain he lived through? And what of the emotional and physical costs to my brother and sister-in-law? What did they do to deserve that?

I had a conversation once about this with a pretty religious person... His thought was that God sent the child to us in order to teach us a lesson, much like he did with his own son Jesus. My thought? God's a sadistic bastard if that's the case. I don't get the logic - suffering SUCKS. It's not a lesson. It's not a higher power giving a damn about some slightly evolved mammals on a blue rock orbiting a nondescript star in an average galaxy in a small galactic neighborhood 13 billion years in the making. Suffering is a person going through torments - and the people around him or her are affected deeply in their own ways. My brother and his wife were good people before my nephew was around - and afterward, they're still good people. Maybe they value life a bit more, or maybe they treat their surviving children (who are, by the way, amazing kids) just that much better - but come on, bringing a kid into the world to suffer through what my nephew suffered just to teach a frickin' lesson? Wouldn't it be easier to, oh I don't know, put up a billboard? "BE NICE TO EACH OTHER" "CARE ABOUT YOUR NEIGHBORS" "DON'T SCHTUP THE FARM ANIMALS" See? I just saved your god a lot of work - and I don't even NEED a lesson from on-high to get that.

Over at the Friendly Atheist blog, Richard Wade shares a story about his own experiences with prayer and a relative in pain. That's what sparked my post. Here's a bit of his write-up - go read the rest of it. It's touching and written beautifully.

The first one was resentment. Hearing God get praise for all sorts of good things he was doing for Mom I was standing there wondering what am I, chopped liver? I’m the one who has been there, been there, been there for Mom, helping her, comforting her, trying futilely to keep the pain away any way I can, even when the pills and the morphine injections aren’t enough and all I can do is to hold her while she screams and screams as if she’s on fire. I’m the one who has slept in a chair next to her bed for the last month, half of that in this damn hospital, trying to keep up a positive face, resting only when she rests, waking at the slightest moan, taking care of things that the overworked nurses take too long get around to, never putting more than four hours of sleep together at a time, the custodian of the ruin of what was once a remarkable and admirable person, her in-tact mind trapped in an agonized body that now looks like a medical science experiment. She hasn’t had any help from an all-powerful heavenly father, just a nearly powerless earthly son. Spare me the lame crap about how God put me here as his agent, his nursing staff member. If he could do that he could have saved her a lot of suffering by preventing her from getting shingles on top of rheumatoid arthritis in the first place. Even the doctors seem taken aback by her level of suffering. The dead Lucille Ball is doing far more for Mom’s comfort than God is.

Go give someone you love a hug.

May the most experienced win.

I feel badly doing this, but I've changed my endorsement. After listening to my aunt extol the virtues of having a president with previous experience in the White House, I can't really say I disagree with her anymore. Certainly, the more I think about it, the more I think that this strong, powerful woman has had exactly what it takes in the White House. I think that she certainly has had a variety of experiences of many sorts in the executive branch's presence, and I certainly believe very strongly that she knows how to take care of business. For that reason, I am changing my endorsement.

Sentator Obama, while certainly an engaging and energetic candidate, and also someone whose policies follow no doctrine but rather a nuanced set of ideas which can change as the time and circumstances dictate, has almost definitely never been in the positions that she has, and therefore I can no longer endorse him. Monica Lewinsky - you have my vote.

Ubuntu 8.04 released

WHEE!

My favorite OS distribution has been updated to 8.04 - this one, named "Hardy Heron", is pretty nifty.

You can get it by clicking here and finding the download links on their site somewhere.

Mark Shuttleworth, the guy in charge, gave a really great interview to discuss the timing of the release and some other interesting issues.

I think that the desktop distros of Linux have finally begun to reach a point where they Simply Work. I've known for a long time that Linux in general is superior to Windows in many ways, especially on the desktop. The customization, the free software, the toughness and security all worked very well together. BUT.... and this is a big frickin' "but", the driver support wasn't fully there yet. Sure, anyone could get whatever hardware working for the most part, but it was never very easy. You couldn't, for example, just go to ATI's site and download the drivers you wanted, click on them, and GO. You had to read the forums, find out the source you needed, maybe compile the drivers yourself or find an RPM or what apt-get stuff you needed in the command line, and then hope that it didn't break. This was daunting for new users - I had no issues doing this stuff, but I'm a geek.

Ubuntu has simplified a LOT of that, and includeds more drivers than ever before. 3rd party drivers are simple to install as well, and non-free drivers (non-free as in not open-source and neato-licensed, but rather closed-source and restrictive licenses) can be installed with a couple of clicks. In addition, the new Windows-based installer makes it an absolute breeze to setup.

If you haven't tried Ubuntu, do it. The default download is a LiveCD, so you can try it before installing it.

Skeptologists!!!

The above trailer is for a show being shopped to networks called the Skeptologists. It stars a whole big bunch of very interesting people including one of my all-time-favorite blogging people, Phil Plait of Bad Astronomy. As Phil mentions in his blog, we need more people showing true skeptical inquiry on television.

I would watch EVERY episode. Go to the Skeptologists support area to learn what you can do to help get this show on TV.

Priests.... balloons.....

There has GOT to be a punchline here somewhere.

A Roman Catholic priest who floated off under hundreds of helium party balloons was missing Monday off the southern coast of Brazil.

Don't get me wrong - it sucks if he's dead and all, being that people dying... well, sucks....

But....

Balloons. I'm just sitting here paralyzed by hilarity - and honestly, I can't think of anything to say that beats the article itself.

Wow.

Prayer and disc golf

My brothers and I enjoyed a session of disc golfing yesterday, our second of the year (our first was a cold and muddy debacle of epic fail). We had a wonderful time overall, too.

My younger brother said something that stuck with me a bit longer than I expected it to. He noted, after a particularly bad throw from me, that I tended to yell at my disc as it arced whichever way it was arcing (invariably the exact opposite direction from where I wanted). He said something along the lines of "Why?".

"Well," I said, "I know it makes no difference. I know I have no effect. It just feels good to express myself anyway."

"Yeah, Jeremy, it's harmless and pointless.. just like prayer, right?"

Oh.
I get it.
See, he's making a jab at my pretty staunchly "screw your prayers" atheist position. I ranted at him a bit about how my yelling at a disc isn't quite like people withholding medicines from a dying child and felt vaguely superior about myself for a moment or 3.

Last night, I'm laying there in my bed trying to sleep, and I kept going over it in my head. Why do I yell at the disc in midair? Why bother? What's the point? Why does it feel good to yell at that disc?

Well, here's what it's not: an honest attempt to change the direction of flight. I know on every level of my being that the disc is going where it's going because of the interaction of my skill in throwing (or considerable lack thereof) and the air currents the disc flies through.

I thought about it for a while, and I think I hit on the reason why I DO tend to yell at the disc - it's social. It makes me feel better to express my desire to change the things no longer in my control to people around me. I don't think I'd do it if I was running the course solo (and in fact, when I go out to the driving range with clubs or hit a ball around a quick 9 on my own, I almost never talk to myself, the clubs, or the ball - even though I have even worse results on the golf courses than I do with disc golf courses). It makes me feel good to know that we all feel just about the same. We yell at trees (or praise them) for being in exactly the wrong (or right) places, knowing damned well that the trees make no conscious choice to get in / out of the way of our discs. We credit throws with luck when skill is involved. We credit ourselves with skill when unexpected gusts of wind are involved.

When it comes to group activities like this, it seems we enjoy a certain amount of exposition in order to express our feelings and thoughts about our own performance. It's almost like boasting about hunting exploits around a campfire (but significantly less manly, since, well, this involves plastic discs being thrown around a pretty course).

Is that like prayer?
I don't know... my experiences with prayer were always about DOING, SEEING, FORGIVING, and THANKING. Prayer was taught as a communal way to talk with god because we had to do it - either to make sure that he got the idea we were really happy with having been told to drink wine (mmmmmmmmm concord grapes) or to beg for the privilege of being written into the "book of life" so that we didn't die in the next year. Some prayers seemed more directed at a sense of community through their application of the rabbi and congregation alternating the reading, but here's the thing: we were taught that prayer MATTERED.

If you believe in god and you pray, you do it because you're trying to influence in some way this omnipotent force with your own (or your community's) voice. That's different, in a lot of ways, from my yelling at my disc as it arcs awkwardly through the air to a bad landing.

But it still holds a similarity - that need to communicate with the group around us. And THAT'S interesting to me - why do we feel this need?

I am sure that someone could probably explain that clearly with anthropological studies and a dissertation on prehistoric communication and learning, but I prefer this: I like it when people understand me. When I have a bad throw, I like to express my displeasure. Yelling at an inanimate object (which is actually animated at that moment but in completely the wrong way for my liking) feels a lot better than yelling at myself or saying "OH JEEZ I SUCK" over and over again.

Still, next time I disc golf I'm gonna be thinking about this again - quite self-consciously, I might add.

Oh hey guys, it's OUR fault priests are schtupping kids!

I'd post something funny or angry here, but I can't do it right now. Way too busy. Instead, click this link and read the No God Blog take on this whole thing with the current pope and whatnot. Then go take a bath. Or six.

Priest Off!

I find it laughable when I read about our new pope (third verse same as the first / just last night i was reminded of...) and how sickened / saddened he is by the pedophiles running rampant through his holy institution.... considering he was one of the assclowns who assisted his holiness, john paul the second shrubbery of christ, in an attempt to try to bury the issue of priests raping children under the rug in order to protect the hierarchy of their institution in every way possible. Good stuff.

Ben Folds

Wheeeoooooooooeeeoooooooooo oooooo oooo

(that's me singing along to one of his songs)

I'm pretty psyched. Normally, I don't post much about my personal life here - that's why I have my semi-private emoblog at livejournal, of course. :) Tonight, however, I get to go see Ben Folds.

:fingers crossed he plays songs from biography:

Ben Folds has always been one of those artists I had plenty of respect for, but it took me years to become a fan. I saw him live a several years ago for the first time, and that turned me into a pretty good fan right then and there. Still, it wasn't until my divorce abour a year later that his music really started to have an emotional impact on me. Specifically, there was an album called "The Unauthorized Biography of Reinhold Messner" from his days with Ben Folds Five which really nailed my emotional buttons directly. There are parts of the album which seem to express that feeling of "it all ends anyway, and everything is futile, and I regret so much" in such clarity that I was floored.

Anyway, off to the show tonight!

DIRECTIVE FROM ON-HIGH ANTI-EXPELLED LEADERS

That's the second time I've used all-caps in a blog title. Sorry. I'll try to stop doing that.

Pharyngula's got a good idea today.

We need to get the NCSE's counter-site to the hideous little propaganda film, Expelled, to rank higher in the search engines. The way to do this is for lots and lots of you to link to the Expelled Exposed site with the word Expelled. It's not hard: just copy this code into a blog post.

This is the code listed in the post -
<a href="http://expelledexposed.com/"><i>Expelled</i></a>

Winds up looking like this:

Expelled


(click that link while you're here anyway, too)
(and the Pharyngula one too - he's one of the best bloggers around)

Vox Day is actually pretty funny.

First of all, I mean that. He is. And I'm not talking in the "he's funny because I'm laughing at him" way. I mean it in the "Vox Day says funny things which are humorous and here I am, see, laughing along with him" sort of way.

(we interrupt this blog post to acknowledge the wonderful shout out from Reed over at Unorthodox Atheism. Very nice mention, thank you. Right back atcha!)

Where was I?

OH yes. Over at Whatever (John Scalzi's blog- if you don't know who he is, go to amazon and buy everything he's ever written. You'll thank me.), John allows Vox Day to post as part of a continuing "Big Idea" series. (that was a long 'a href', but I couldn't figure out a more convenient place to stop. Here is another - Wil Wheaton also recommends Scalzi.)

Vox Day wrote a book which has rankled the hell out of many atheists - it's called "The Irrational Atheist" (wonder what would bug an atheist about THAT title, eh? I'm gonna write a book called "The Logical Christian" and uh... wait... it's not as funny in reverse. Never mind.). He released it for free as an ebook on his site, and it's likely worth a read. I'm not going to bother right now - I have a 600 page book on Javascript staring menacingly at me from the corner of my desk for my next class, you see. You can go here to download and read the book in 3 or 4 formats.

I'm not going to bother taking on the column itself - Scalzi's commenters do a fine job, and I think I've done enough of the "LOOK HOW RIGHT I AM" posting to last a little while. Go read the post @ Whatever and enjoy. It's actually pretty fun reading, and gives good insight into the mind of a believer and the incompatibility with reality that's shown.

Here's an excerpt:

On the other hand, it seems that proper little theists are absolutely not supposed to describe their targets as “The Circle of Jerkdom”, much less “The Four Horsemen of the Bukkakelypse”.

I love that line. Go vox day, with your hilarious edginess! Reference group masturbation and the hilarious Japanese porn styling of bukake! That's gonna win us irrational and immoral atheists over!

(okay, I DID think it was funny. :))

KROQ 80's mix

Back in the early days of "when I discovered alternative music", you know, when it actually WAS an alternative, I heard about this station named KROQ out in california, playing alternative music all day every day.

Mind you, at the time, the only exposure to alternative music I could get on the radio was either every sunday night on 88.7 (not 89x at the time - they were adult contemporary the rest of the time they were on the air except for a few hours a week) OR by hooking a receiver up to the CABLE company's cable in order to get 88.3 WXUT (which wasn't open-air broadcasting yet). I drooled over the idea of being able to hear bands like The Cure and Shadowy Men On a Shadowy Planet at any time of the day...

Well, thanks to Wil Wheaton's awesome blog "in exile", I have discovered a perfect streaming station. So far I've heard the songs "Nightmares" by the Violent Femmes, a Bowie song, some Depeche Mode, and (!!!!) Nitzer Ebb.

Click. Stream. ROCK.

Conversations with a creationist

I've been having an interesting conversation with an avowed creationist, a nice young lady named "Casey". She commented on this post, in which I discussed the difference between religion and atheism from my point of view.

I have to admit, I was a bit snarky at first, but I thought better of it. Casey came at this from a position of kindness, and her entire motivation was to spread the truth as she saw fit. I am posting the entire conversation below, as I feel it was interesting and quite a good look inside the mind of someone who could be called a "fundamentalist", as well as a look at how one of these conversations could actually be had without resorting to being a complete jerk. :)

THAT said, I doubt anyone changed anyone else's mind.

Here you go, in lots of quoting:

Casey said...
I understand your theory that athiesm is not a religion, and that you simply do not believe in God. But I disagree. I know from the depth of my soul that God exists and that Jesus exists as a savior for all who call upon him.
There is not just proof in the holy bible, which was written by God through man, but there is proof all around you. Who do you think created this Earth? Who created the land and the waters, Night and Day?
Most athiest believe in the Big Bang theory, where something happened in space and a tiny spec of dirt exploded and created the universe.
Atheism does require some faith. You must have a theory of why you exsist, and how you came to be from the beginnings of time. That is Faith, is it not?
But you see, I believe that God created the Earth about 6,000 years ago. And 4,000 years ago there was a flood. There is scientific proof that god exists and that God flooded the Earth nearly 4,000 years ago, during Noah's time.
God loves all people. We are his creation.

I personnally know a grown man, probably about 45 years of age who just gave his life to Jesus. He was an atheist. He didn't believe in God, but rather that there was an inner strive of human nature to want to become a better people. He ignored the facts of creation. Then one day he was confused. His whole fammily grew up loving God. His wife loves God, all his kids and their husbands and even his grandchildren LOVE GOD. And this destroyed his atheism. He realized that it is a relationship with God that he does not have. He felt a need and desire to be in the hands of love and forgiveness. He got saved and is living happily in the light of the lord with no doubts or regets. He glows with joy. It is an experience one must find by themselves. God may ask for your heart, but it is up to you to give it. You are Promised eternal life either way you choose. I've chosen eternal riches in heaven, with my savior who has loved me even through my mistakes. He is always there to pull me through.
There is proof that God exists. THrough my testimony, through Bob's testimony, through the living word of God - The Holy Bible, through creation, with scientific evidence of a common creator, with scientific evidence of a flood 4,000 years ago - which explains the Grand Canyon, Niagra falls and closed/preserved clams on mountain peaks and much more.
God is there, and you are questioning it yourself. Why else would you post a page on your blog, asking for someone to prove his existance?
I would love to continue proving God's existance, power and glory.
I hope you take God's creation seriously and realize his love for you.
His love is warm and comforting. He is there to comfort you, heal you through anything.
I hope you have read and seriously considered God's love for you.
No one is perfect, and no man will ever be perfect. Christians are no better than anyone else with mistakes. The only difference is we are covered with forgiveness.
Thanks for listening and I hope I have answered your questioning spirit.
* Your Friend *

11:13 AM

jeremy said...
Wow, Casey.

I think you missed my point entirely.

Let's get a few things clear:

1: I don't NEED a reason for why I'm around, or why the universe is around. It's here, and we're here. We're these tiny little chemical accidents sitting on a planet orbiting a relatively normal star which orbits around a relatively normal galaxy which is pretty much indistinguishable from the rest of the galaxies built like it in a universe that's BILLIONS of years old. I'm pretty psyched that I get to exist and see this stuff, personally. I could care less if there's a "reason" for it all to exist.

2: I know enough about how physics actually WORKS and have done enough research of data that's actually....

you know what?
screw this. You're not going to listen to logic. Your book, as written by men (or their ghost), tells you all you need to know. a bazillion other blogs have this fight every day. I'm not trying to convince you of anything- I was just trying to express my point of view to a friend.

Enjoy your faith.

11:20 AM

Casey said...
You know enough about how physics actually WORK and have done enough research of data that's actually....What????

I am ready to listen. But, if you do not want to hear my opinion I will quit responding.
Just tell me.

I was just trying to show you a different opinion, My opinion. You said " Tell you what - you bring me proof that a god exists, and I'll be the first to line up and pledge my soul or whatever." So I took it as an oppourtunity to open myself up to you, and try to share my faith.

And thanks, I DO enjoy my Faith.

10:48 AM

jeremy said...
I appreciate your candidness and politeness, and I apologize for my snippiness (if that's a word - if it's not, you know what I meant anyway I think :)).

To be blunt, you didn't bring me proof of anything.

Part by part -

"There is not just proof in the holy bible, which was written by God through man, but there is proof all around you. Who do you think created this Earth? Who created the land and the waters, Night and Day?"

I don't think anyone did it. I have yet to see evidence of creation by an intelligent force or deity beyond the evidence provided by books which are of, at best, dubious translations and, at worst, outright fairy tales.

"Most athiest believe in the Big Bang theory, where something happened in space and a tiny spec of dirt exploded and created the universe."

I can't speak of MOST atheists, because I'm only one and we're not some monolithic structure that has doctrine and whatnot... :)
BUT as for me, I think that the big bang theory is about as close as we've gotten to what really happened at the start of this universe's timeline. THAT SAID, the beauty of science is that there could be a better explanation in the wings, waiting for evidence and proof. We DO have evidence that fits absolutely perfectly with the big bang theory at this time though - some amazing, amazing work with the background radiation of the universe, for example.

"Atheism does require some faith."

No, it does not. :) See, this is where we trip up a bit. It's not about faith - it's about a LACK of faith. For example, you don't have faith that yellow unicorns run around Antarctica, do you? No, you're pretty certain that the unicorns aren't prancing around down there because (a) no one has seen them (b) the climate is really unsuited to unicorns and (c) yellow? Really? THAT said, if someone discovered the yellow unicorns and perhaps brought back some good proof, you'd be able to start believing in them. And I would imagine that "good proof" would go beyond a couple of books, for you. It would likely include a specimen or 3, video, and maybe some research into how they survive down there. Now, take out "yellow unicorns" and substitute "god" or any other deity.

Put another way - do you have faith that Zeuss isn't real? Nah, you KNOW he isn't. Same deal here.

"You must have a theory of why you exsist, and how you came to be from the beginnings of time. That is Faith, is it not?"

Nope. No theory about "why". In fact, the "why" part of existence is simple to me- I exist because my parents had me. I'm thrilled to be here and I hope that my life brings some good into this world, and I try my hardest to be a nice person to everyone possible and raise kids that can continue that.

"But you see, I believe that God created the Earth about 6,000 years ago. And 4,000 years ago there was a flood. There is scientific proof that god exists and that God flooded the Earth nearly 4,000 years ago, during Noah's time. "

No, there isn't scientific proof that god exists. Seriously. If there was, scientists would be writing paper after paper showing proofs and trying to break each others' proofs. If a scientist could come up with a proof that god exists, he or she would be ridiculously wealthy. We're talking game-changing information here that blows things like relativity and such out of the water.

Look, 4000 years ago there WAS LIKELY a big flood. Or 10. The story of the flood originated in an area of the world that was given to flooding, and the floods would often be devastating. Covering the whole world? Causing a canyon? Implausible at best - especially since we can show with independently verified geological evidence all over the place that, for example, the grand canyon was created by natural erosion over the course of a few million years. THAT said, your book is all you need to refute this.

As to the rest of your comment -

Your anecdote about the loving man who converted is nice and all, but it doesn't move me. :) Sorry. I would need real proof in the existence of a god in order to actually believe in one.

Thank you for your kind words and comments regardless, and I appreciate the spirit in which they are intended.

Would you mind terribly if I posted this conversation as an entry on my front page?

11:06 AM

Casey said...
Jeremy, I greatly accept your apology. I must admit I was really stunned with the way you wrote.
I appreciate your change of words and kindness in your second entry.

I may not be able to convince you about God and his creation, but maybe if you want to hear about REAL scientific evidence you will watch a video by a real scientist/doctor. His name is Dr. Kent Hovind. He has videos that can be found on the internet or probably in christian book stores. A website I have found is
http:// freehovind com/watch
He has Seven different videos, explaining scientific facts proving God's creation. The videos are:
Seminars
1The Age of the Earth
2The Garden of Eden
3Dinosaurs and the Bible
4Lies in the Textbooks
5The Dangers of Evolution
6The Hovind Theory
7Questions and Answers
Check it out, please. Maybe it will be scientific information that helps.
If you want to post this on your front page, I don't mind. I hope that it will help others think, especially about creation.
I believe that Creation is the biggest foundation for our existence, and our foundation of Faith.
Thanks for listening.
* your friend *

11:12 AM

jeremy said...
Hi Casey -

You can't put science and Hovind in the same page. They're fundamentally incompatible words.

I've watched his videos - and here's the thing:

You have to accept HIS basis in order to believe what the videos say, and Hovind's basis is literally incompatible with every scientifically established (and peer-reviewed) fact regarding the growth of this planet.

Look, if he was actually right, scientists would be all over the peer-reviewed journals with proofs. Scientists LOVE to take each other on, and quite often do. They look constantly for errors in each others' works, and scrutinize and tear apart submissions which don't work. Hell, Einstein isn't even safe! Hawking's theories come under fire on a constant basis, and that's the way it SHOULD be. Something that shook the core of evolution to the bone, something which shakes up the scientific establishment would be wecomed with open arms if it could be proven. A scientist would become very, very rich very, very quickly if he or she could pull it off. :)

Ken Hovind won't submit to scientific review processes because he KNOWS it's not science. He can call it science all he wants - but until he shows proofs in a physical manner that actually WORKS in terms of being reviewable, his "science" isn't SCIENCE.

I have watched a few of his videos - and I have to say I think he is a compelling speaker, but again, his logic is flawed because he mixes things which can be proven (evolution, for example, undergoes nearly constant proofing and revision) in with things that can't be proven objectively (biblical proofs just don't hold up to objective scrutiny - they're held to a different standard, which eliminates their ability to be used in science).

He's an interesting preacher, but using his ideas as a basis for truth is a dangerous idea. It leads down a very slippery slope.

I respect your choice to just have faith in these matters and reject logic which is incompatible with your worldview, but I also hope that you'll one day actually sit down with an objective eye to look at these beliefs of yours and try to maybe gather a better understanding of where the words really come from.

Good luck in life!

11:43 AM

Sex with a picnic table.

No, seriously. A guy had... sex... with a uh... PICNIC TABLE.

HOW?

Link has a mugshot, even.

According to NBC Toledo, Ohio, affiliate WNWO-TV, the videos show Price tilting the metal round picnic table on its side and then laying up against it to have sexual intercourse with the table. Afterward, he can then be seen cleaning the table and the deck.

During questioning, he reportedly admitted to having sex with the table. Police said he also admitted to bringing the table inside his home for sex.

Let me emphasize and important part of the quote - BRINGING THE TABLE INSIDE HIS HOME.


FOR SEX.

I mean, you can schtup whoever, right? I totally support everyone's right to schtup everyone else in the world with consent, as well as the right to pleasure yourself in whatever ways you gotta do it. Whatever.

But a TABLE? a TABLE?? There's weird, there's deviant, there's people who find things like goatse and tubgirl hot - and then there's this.

I'm not going to be able to go shopping for patio furniture this spring without sorta thinking about this.


(he may be charged with public indencency - apparently some witness saw him, took video, burned it to dvd, and then dropped it off with the police, according to this article. There may be charges relating also to the fact that he was doing it in view of a school. Genius.)

Oh look, Jesus!

My Confined Space has posted a great JPG about Jesus. Click and go check it out. It's nice and, as the Friendly Atheist says, we should see more of this nice guy.

HAY GUYS IT'S TEH 21ST CENTURY OKAY

So, we've got all this wonderful life saving technology everywhere, right? I mean, it's pretty hard to die of things like pneumonia and such, especially if a doctor catches it and treats it before it gets really really bad, right?

Why the hell do idiots insist on letting their ghost heal their kids when it DOESN'T WORK???

Facts:
1: These parents let their kid die.
2: This 15-month-old child very likely died in extreme discomfort and agony, fighting for every gasping breath. 15 MONTHS OLD.


They're apparently getting charged with manslaughter, which is great and all, but I'd lay even money on them not getting jailtime.

Killing your own child to appease a ghost... Good stuff, guys. Good stuff.